The Don Martin - Mark J. Ward Discussion on
I Corinthians 11:1-16
Ward's First Article
This is the first article Mark J. Ward writes under the Subject line: I Corinthians 11:1-16...
I Cor. 11:1-16: Questions (1) Miraculous Prayer ONLY?
Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:22:28 -0500
"Mark J. Ward" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Mark J. Ward here, to Don Martin, and the list:
Don and I love each other tremendously, yet disagree on a few Bible matters (as do many of us on this list <g>). I would like to engage a study (of all) focusing on what is sometimes known as the "spiritual gifts" view of I Cor. 11:1-16. While there are variations on this view, the view holds generally that the "praying or prophesying" and "pray" as mentioned in that text do not occur today, therefore the instruction for women to be covered is not applicable today. I believe that the brethren that do the best job (while they may have some slight differences among themselves on this) of advocating this position are:
- Brother Gene Frost (see his material at The Gospel Anchor Quarterly;
circa 1957, 1958; Volume I, Issue 3; on I Cor. 11:1-16).
- Brother Bill Cavendar (see his tract entitled, "The Woman and Her
- Brother Don Martin (see his website for his understanding and
presentation on that view).
This is a Bible subject and therefore worthy of our consideration. There is a Bible answer on the topic and we should be interested in God's Will on the matter. I am sure it is of interest to all on this list, at least to some degree or another.
[NOTE: This (1) "spiritual gifts" view is a different view than:
(2) the "figurative" view
(3) the "long hair only" view
(4) the "custom" view or
(5) the "long hair AND artificial covering" view.
Note that usually ALL positions except the "spiritual gifts" view hold that the covering is (or ~could be~ if customs of the day indicated such, in the case of the "custom view") required today...the differences lie in whether or not women "figuratively" cover, have long hair only to be covered, or put on an artificial covering at times of praying or prophesying. This does not make the spiritual gifts view wrong ~per se~, it is just a fact worth pointing out. We just disagree on what the passage means, therefore the need for continued study along with other subject matter.]
Here is question #1 for brother Don Martin (others jump in if you like...realizing that the 3 post limit per day would limit one responding to ALL if such were to jump in <g>). May God richly bless us with open minds, open Bibles, active listening to opposing views, and great attitudes as we continue to study this and other subjects together on this list.
1. Don, why do you presently teach that "praying" and "pray" in I Cor.
11:1-16 is EXCLUSIVELY "miraculous"?
Please, if you can and will, explain in your answering of that question:
- your hermenutical approach to arriving at that conclusion,
- why you believe it CANNOT BE praying like we have today, (i.e. why you
believe it is miraculous ONLY) and how you can be sure of this,
- what other New Testament passages using "praying" or "pray" or
"prayer" or "prayed" (etc) are also, in your estimation, miraculous ONLY
(Note: no need to prove it in those passages now...just list them, if
- that IF praying in I Cor. 11:1-16 means ~praying like we pray today~,
that your position would then be that the passage would be applicable
for us living today and that women should cover their heads with an
artificial covering whenever they pray (if you believe that <g>), and,
- that you believe that just because a person might find a verse (other
than in I Cor. 11:1-16) that might teach the concept of
inspired/miraculous praying, one must prove that ~in I Cor. 11:1-16 that
such is the case with the word "praying" and "pray"~ (kinda like "plural
of class" and "plural in number" of "children" in the New Testament
elsewhere than in I Tim. 3 and Titus 1) for that particular text's
meaning of "praying" and "pray" to be so interpreted and applied.
I hope Don and the readership will appreciate the fact that I am trying
to focus in on our areas of difference (I am not telling Don how he has
to answer my question tho <g>). I look forward to reading his (and
others) thots on this thread.
Mark J. Ward
The Religious Instructor
(from MARS-List 3815, January 2003)
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[Editors Note: This is one of the most in-depth, comprehensive studies between two brethren on the issue of whether "the spiritual gifts view" of I Corinthians 11:1-16 is true, or whether God requires women today to cover their heads with an artifical covering whenever they pray. We hope all readers will continue to study all Bible topics with open minds, willing to conform to God's Truth. Thanks for reading! - Mark J. Ward email@example.com]
Email the Editor at firstname.lastname@example.org
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